hmm.. complexity of themes such as "movies that are far too long and tack on extra storylines in the last 45 minutes when they probably should've saved it for the sequel they're already filming?"

how about themes like "take us WAY TOO SERIOUSLY! That's what WE do!"

all right, that was mean. i didn't dislike the movie. i was also drunk. but i'm quite frankly tired of the ridiculous weight being attached to a very flawed and heavyhanded version of the franchise. good movie, not worthy of the hype.

dark knight = the radiohead of comic book movies.

"the sequel they're already filming?"

according to jonathan nolan in the interview, they actually did not consider a sequel at all in the construction of the film, and they wanted to make it complete within itself. and they still don't have a story for a third movie, if christopher nolan even wants to make one.

"they wanted to make it complete within itself."

they didn't.

I didn't think it was a flawless movie, but I'm not sure what you mean. What was incomplete?

I can see where jbg had problems with the film, but it was pretty damn good. Not Godfather II or all that other hyperbole that was written about, but it was an interesting, well made, well acted film. And very dark, which I liked.

I had issues with it, sure. It is hard to make a 2 hour and 40 minute movie without some flaws. For example, I was confused by all of Batman's investigative work. How did he extract that finger print? And why did it lead him to that apartment? What did that sonar phone do? And how did he make a giant sonar cell phone thingy? And when he figured out that cop had someone in the hospital, where did that all come from? I was also dismayed by that odd first scene with the Scarecrow. Pretty useless.

But I loved the overall theme of good and evil. I loved Dent, Batman and Gorden working together. I loved the Joker and his plans. Good stuff. I am tempted to see it again. If it wasn't so long and I didn't have a hankering for Mama Mia.

Does everyone really love Abba, or does everyone just pretend to?

I have never been into ABBA. But I am really into musicals.

Fair enough, although I would never have guessed it.

Is it because I seem so manly?

No, although you are that. It is because I think you're the first film buff I've met who also likes musicals a lot.

Not all of them. There are quite a few I dislike. I hated Chicago, because all the music was on a "stage" and people sang and danced in a surreal space. I hate most musicals like that. I like it when it is a hard core musical. People are eating dinner and the next thing you know, everyone is singing and dancing. I loved Hairspray. I saw it four times. True, it was on a long plane flight and I had no choice, but still I watched.

I suggest you check out Bugsy Malone. Now that is an odd musical.

I've never seen anything by John Waters, but I probably should. The Bugsy Malone movie poster byline actually seems to know what it's talking about: "Every year brings a great movie. Every decade brings a great movie musical." However, that might've only been true for the 70s and 80s.

So not much of a fan of Chorus Line, either?
Wall-E made me want to relive my good old high school "Hello Dolly" days a little. But only a little.

Chorus Line! This allows to bring up that story about the time I saw a production of Chorus Line staged entirely by nine/ten year olds in front of an audience that consisteted entirely of their parents.

They didn't change ANY of the lyrics. You know the song Tits and Ass? Yeah, that was in there. And when we got to the end of the song, the parents cheered so loud! I couldn't believe it. Simultaneously my best and worst theater moment.

I guess I have to really just confess my musical ignorance. I think it stems from my apparently erroneous assumption that all musicals suck.

jesse, start with ONCE, an Irish movie. for real. if you can stomach that, try another.

Once is very good, but the greatest musical of all time is and always will be Jesus Christ Superstar. Watch Norman Jewison's film, which transplants the story into 1960's Israel, sort of. I do not jest.

New horizons are springing up before my very eyes!

I did, for the record, add Bugsy Malone to my netflix queue.

Two tastes of JCS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa3yG1j_9pc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCB_UuQZO4k&feature=related

Paul WIlliams, who wrote all of the muppets music, wrote the music for Bugsy Malone. It is about kid gangsters and when they sing they are dubbed with adult voices. Plus people get killed with cream puff guns. Jodi Foster and Scott Baio star in it.

Here's another fun JCS clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61TwQwgGi8Y&feature=related

I was ALSO involved in a little kid production of Chorus Line. For us, they changed the lyrics -- boobs and tush.

The same organization also bowdlerized Annie. How is that possible, you may ask? Simple -- it was a Jewish organization, so they celebrated "new years" instead of Christmas. The relevant song was "We're getting a New Deal for New Years this Year." I don't know if I like the change more or less. Kind of like how the Hellmanns jingle works better as Best Foods.

The JCS movie is the best musical ever. Every stage version I've seen has been bordering on terrible. It's a hard show to make coherent.

wow. lot to catch up on.

dark knight is well made. no question. that doesn't forgive heavy-handedness and a tacked-on third act that could have been saved for another installment, allowing more time/explanation/resolution for the best and most relevant character (the joker.)

sorry dudes. "mamma mia" is a disaster. it is extremely -- EXTREMELY -- poorly directed. pierce brosnan lacks all charm and, oh yeah, cannot carry a tune. i was VERY disappointed. having never seen the show, i at least expected to have fun. hardly!

having said that, meryl streep is, of course, fantastic. and i love abba. so... a mixed bag.

[high-fives JBG for Radiohead comment]

Blech, musicals. I prefer not to be patronized by my entertainment.

How are musicals condescending? If anything they are upfront about what they are.

[high fives lorelei.]

[then gives her a dirty look re: musicals.]

i'm tired of musicals being the all-purpose go-to for nose-snubbing by nose-snubbers (ESPECIALLY actors/theatre people who claim they prefer "serious" material.)

we're all aware that just about every theatrical performance in the world (except england) up until the 17th century WAS BASICALLY A MUSICAL, right?

no, i am not comparing "mamma mia" to aeschylus or wagner. no one would do that. that's fucking restupit.

but one needs to give the form a fair chance before dismissing it. most people just hated those "Rent" kids in high school (hey, so did i) and think they know what musicals are.

[plans on taking lorelei to see a good musical in the next 8 months. if one plays in l.a.]

i watched 3 disturbing minutes of bugsy malone, an experience i hope never to prolong or repeat.

once isn't the best musical or anything; it just incorporates the music effortlesslier than most, so i thought it might be a soothing intro. but instead you've gone with dubbed cream-faced children.

JCS = best musical ever, no doubt.

ummm... newsies anyone?

and dark knight ruled. disappearing pencil trick? holy violence, batman!

Yeah, Newsies is pretty much the best. But I do love JCS.

"disappearing pencil trick" is precisely when there was a fire alarm at the arclight. so i managed to see 2 hours and 47 minutes of batman (drunk) without seeing the damn pencil trick.

thanks a LOT arclight, officially the worst place i've ever seen a movie in los angeles.

The typical musical theater facial features, demeanor and to some extent even the dance moves have always reminded me of the faces people make when speaking to young children. "ZOMG we're having SO MUCH FUN, EVERYONE!"

But I think it really boils down to my belief that movies/plays should be about telling a story. And in this case, I dislike having the story interrupted every ten minutes so everyone can sing a cheesy song that doesn't advance the plot.

Lorelei, watch 1776 or listen to Jelly's Last Jam-- both are some of the musicals I like most. They both advance the plot through songs (if I remember correctly).

I really liked Chicago as a movie musical because it just accepts that there's no real way to place singing and dancing into a story without it being ridiculous, so all the songs are pulled out of the real world and placed into a fantasy world where they make a lot more sense.

Plus, that allows you to be a lot more stylistic, which is something from theater that I miss in films.

It's weird; theater is bound by realism so much more (not a lot of animation in real time), and yet you see a lot more efforts to create stylistic rather than realistic imagery, whereas movies have complete freedom to create any environment they want, and yet they're almost always bounded in the real world. Even movies where standard world rules don't apply (Lord of the Rings, for example) still choose to portray the world in a realistic manner. The trees still look like trees, the mountains look like mountains.

Why?

They don't have to.

I didn't watch all of Dogville, but I loved that it was trying something.

http://www.garoo.net/photos/2004/06/20040628-dogville.jpg

I want to see more stuff like that.

RumorsDaily,

It's not a very good movie overall, but you should consider watching Francis Ford Coppola's One From the Heart. It's a musical set in Vegas (the music is mostly bad) and Coppola went broke building an extremely sophisticated soundstage version of Las Vegas. It's like watching the most expensive theatrical show ever.